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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Without seeing your CDI, I can't tell. Take pictures of the CDI itself and you should also have a part number on it.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:29 pm 
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I took a pic of the cdi. Second picture I want to know what that is or what's supposed to be there the third is a wtf to the wiring on this buggy!


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:57 pm 
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First picture, seem like you have the same CDI as the Hammerhead 250 GTS / SS. Check this link for the manual, the electrical plan is in it, the second one you can see where the wires goes on the CDI itself instead of the electrical plan. http://wiki.buggydata.com/images/e/ed/Hammerhead_250_GTS_User_Parts_Manual.pdf

Now check with the plan where the wires goes and check if the wire goes at the same place on your machine. That will tell you if what I am sending you is right.

Black on the connector with 3 terminal is power so from what I see you have a DC CDI. This is what will give power to the CDI. For the rest I can't see but follow the wires. Green is ground.

On top, you have a relay and from the colour I see, this is the relay that prevent you from starting the machine. Green / Yellow, you should have that on the solenoid. Mean, check the Red / White and the other wire I can see and find where they go. BUT you don't have to do it now, can be later as you jump the 2 bolts on the solenoid to bypass that security now.

Second picture, can't see, you are too close. I can't say because I don't see what's around it. I can't even tell nothing now.

Third picture, this is the result of cutting wires and put them back together. Where you have 4 black wires, put electrical tape on that, this is + 12 volts and if it touch the frame or ground, that might damage parts ... If it didn't happen already. There's also a green lose wire on the first picture, put electrical tape on it to protect any open wire. I can also see some wire that melt, might be because of that.

Check the connections too, make sure they are making contact. All those little thing will help you, not fun to do but you need to do it.

You can do continuity test on the black wire from the CDI to see where it goes, this should be the + 12 volts. Disconnect the battery when you will do all that ...

You need to know where those wires goes otherwise you will never see the end of it. Piece of papers and take note, it will become clearer as you go.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:54 am 
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I thought I mentioned before I get 12v at the black wire on the cdi on the right when I turn the keyed switch on. I'll try to follow the others try and see what's going on. Is a short likely to cause cdi failure as far as damage?


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:54 am 
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Here's is a different pic of the back of that unknown socket. I would really like to know the make and model so I can get a proper manual. I think it might be a Jehm Blazer 250. You mentioned something about the relay. What's its function? I replaced because it was Rusty and not functioning.


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:33 am 
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Jlattan75 wrote:
I thought I mentioned before I get 12v at the black wire on the cdi on the right when I turn the keyed switch on. I'll try to follow the others try and see what's going on. Is a short likely to cause cdi failure as far as damage?


With that much wire exposed it might. Maybe something is plugged at the wrong place and something is damaged. You have to follow the electrical plan in the manual you download and figure out every wires.

As for the CDI, the + 12 is one thing but you have the other wires too. All of them do a job.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:44 am 
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Jlattan75 wrote:
Here's is a different pic of the back of that unknown socket. I would really like to know the make and model so I can get a proper manual. I think it might be a Jehm Blazer 250. You mentioned something about the relay. What's its function? I replaced because it was Rusty and not functioning.

I have no idea what it is.

The relay is a security so the engine don't start in a certain state, when the engine is in gear, when you don't push the brake ... Something like that.

Here's all the parts I see brand new:
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The problem now is, if you don't fix the wiring, you might buy parts and damage them again or even buy parts you do not need.

Follow the wiring and id them all and fix it as you go.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Ok, I travel 12v from the switch to the solenoid. I followed all the wires from it. It seems one goes to the switch, one to the relay, one to ground. Now when I look at the relay all wires can be accounted for but the white wire that goes all the way to the back of the plate where the switch was and has an o ring on it and it's just hanging there. Any idea on where or what that is used for?


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Well we are moving forward.

This is something someone send me by private message and I think this guy is right.

"The relay actually allows for more current draw than what the ignition switch can handle. The reason you see many ignition switch failures is that they are drawing too much current across the contacts and top of that the switch is not sealed from dust and water."

Now let's focus on the CDI for a bit. As you said, when you jump the 2 bolts on the solenoid the engine turn. This is good, this is one last thing to worry.

The next crucial step is the CDI. From what I see, the black where you have the connectors with 3 terminal is the power.

On the connector with 4 terminal.
- The green wire should go to the ground.
- The black and white, should be the the pick up coil but I also see this wire on one of your picture with the switch with 2 green wire you put on to make a test. now trace this specific wire and it should go to the pick up coil otherwise the CDI will not receive signal and you won't have spark.
- The black wire should go to the ignition coil.

I think someone switch the CDI wires around and didn't put them at the right place. You can take the plan from the Hammerhead 250 GTS and double check that. From what I see on the plan, the black and white is the kill switch but in your case it goes to the pick up coil. Also the black and white should go on the connector with 3 terminals at the opposite of the black one to kill the engine when you push the button.

Also, disconnect the switch in front where you have the 2 green wires. Makes no difference for now as you can unplug the CDI to kill the machine. Put electrical tape on it again.

CDI, from what I see, this is the wrong wiring and this is a problem. You have to reproduce what you see on the Hammerhead plan.

You can remove the terminal and move them around with a little pick, you slide it in the connector and pull the wire out.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Here is a pic of the coil we attached those wires. Is it correct? Also, second pic I'm not sure what it is but it's melted


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Where's my CDI fix? You have to follow the steps, there's no way around it.

I told you the CDI because it's the main problem now. From the CDI to where the wires goes. You don't get that done, we are going no where. If the melted connector is related somehow to the CDI, fix it otherwise don't worry about it.

Follow the electrical plan and do the same thing. No way around it.

Doesn't matter now if the charging system don't work, lights don't work, speedometer don't work. The machine don't start and without the engine starting you are not going nowhere.

I still see expose wires, this should be fix by now.

Stay on track and follow what I say and it will eventually start. There's other things that might not work but did I say, CDI first. We will come back on the rest later.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:11 am 
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I see here that black / white travels over the rectifier. Where is the pick up coil? The pic you saw was up front and is unrelated to the black/white your talking about. That seems to be an ext wire to the switch. Should that circuit be open or closed


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:45 am 
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The pick up coil is on the passenger side on the engine. You will see a blue and white wire and a green white wire coming thru a grommet.

Check this link as the picture is on it.
https://gokart.maximum.parts/ignition-coil-cn-cf-moto-250.html

You won't see the pick up coil, just the end of the wire with the connector.

Also, the 3 yellows wires on the regulator, those one too goes around the same place. They are independent but goes to the same place.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Do you have any clue why the black white wires goes into a connected with the green wire?


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Accordingly to the plan, the black and white goes to the kill switch.

Green wire is the ground.

Follow the CDI wires, no way around it, refer to the plan and put them where you see it on the plan. No way around that.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:45 pm 
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Ok I had taken detailed notes on my phone and of course I lost them but I have some pics and I'll try and remember what I found.

Pin 1 black white. This goes two places. It first goes to the kill switch in front. It also attaches to the engine in the back. While going to that spot it goes into a joint with a green wire. It changes to a blue wire. So the blue and green connect to a spot on the passenger side of the engine. It looks like in the same plug it's joined with two yellow wires

Pin2 black yellow. This wire goes two a side of the coil. It also has a split that runs two the front into a joint with many other wires then they go into a box behind the steering wheel.

Pin 3 is empty

Pin4 green. It's is ground check continuity

Pin 5 black. This goes to the switch in front and received 12v of power when the key is turned on

I also found a split of of the black white from pin 1 that comes to a joint with a green wire that inst connected to anything.

I found a green wire that looks like it's connected to the best of ground wires and has no end and not connected

Blue wire that connected to the green terminal on the coil goes to a spot on the engine. Might be ground I don't know I included a pic

I hope this helps you help me Also I do think it's a blazer 250 as behind the lights it says blazer. I have a manual for that

Oh yeah and no spark when I jump selonoid and turn it over. Tried several times


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:28 am 
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I have a parts list for a jehm hawk 250cc. Going from that how do I get or find parts?


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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm 
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Jlattan75 wrote:
Ok I had taken detailed notes on my phone and of course I lost them but I have some pics and I'll try and remember what I found.

Pin 1 black white. This goes two places. It first goes to the kill switch in front. It also attaches to the engine in the back. While going to that spot it goes into a joint with a green wire. It changes to a blue wire. So the blue and green connect to a spot on the passenger side of the engine. It looks like in the same plug it's joined with two yellow wires

Pin2 black yellow. This wire goes two a side of the coil. It also has a split that runs two the front into a joint with many other wires then they go into a box behind the steering wheel.

Pin 3 is empty

Pin4 green. It's is ground check continuity

Pin 5 black. This goes to the switch in front and received 12v of power when the key is turned on

I also found a split of of the black white from pin 1 that comes to a joint with a green wire that inst connected to anything.

I found a green wire that looks like it's connected to the best of ground wires and has no end and not connected

Blue wire that connected to the green terminal on the coil goes to a spot on the engine. Might be ground I don't know I included a pic

I hope this helps you help me Also I do think it's a blazer 250 as behind the lights it says blazer. I have a manual for that

Oh yeah and no spark when I jump selonoid and turn it over. Tried several times


Yes, phone are not really useful for that, paper are because you can browse thru easily. I'm a computer programmer and for that kind of thing, I have papers !!!

Pin 1, I don't have the reference on what you call pin 1, make it hard for me to say if it's right but I can tell you again, in general. This is wrong, the kill switch should not plug with anything else and should be the connector with 3 terminals, if you refer to the plan with the actual CDI design, it's the pin on the top. It should also not connect to the pick up coil, blue and green wires.

I am going thru what you say in your post and this is a mess. You might have damage parts now because of the way it was plug but we don't know yet so, follow the plan and reproduce what you see on it, this is the right way to do it. It also bring back your machine to the original standard on how it should be plug. This way, if you have damage parts, you will be able to buy some and it will work. If you don't soon you plug another part or parts on it and you didn't fix it, you will spend money again and again because the wiring is wrong.

I talk about this plan:
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Something hard to see on the plan is the angle wires. Ground wire / Green on the plan goes on the bottom left of the connector with 4 terminals. The power in is bottom of the connector with 3 terminals.

FYI, you are getting better and you will keep getting better more you look at it. This is the learning curve. There's no way around it, you have to be careful and take your time.

When you look at the plan, focus on 1 thing at the time. Make sure what you are fixing is actually right and note it on the paper you should have because even me knowing about wire, I printed the plan to help you. The power in your case seem to split and I would not do that. Here's why, when the engine will rev higher you might lose power because it is split and supply power to other things. Put a dedicated wire from the switch to the power of the CDI. That will help you in the future when the engine will start and it will start if you don't give up.

Green is always ground and independent. It never connect to any other color like Black ... otherwise you create a short.

Bottom line, trust me and it will work. I did that many times. I don't know all wires but I know how to follow the plan and tell you.

Here's an example I am doing now:
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I know all wires and connectors but I still label them all. Here's why, I don't want to think about it when I cross reference the connectors. I make my life easier and I like easy. :D

Do the same and take your time, one wire to the CDI at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Jlattan75 wrote:
I have a parts list for a jehm hawk 250cc. Going from that how do I get or find parts?


Don't worry about any parts yet, we are not there. Without fixing the wiring the parts you will buy won't work anyway.

Post the parts list you have or put the link, other people will be able to see it and if they have the same machine as you, it will also help them.

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 Post subject: Re: How many connections should be on the back of the keyed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Let me repost my reference. Also you need to know that the plug you see on the right of my cdi has a three point harness plugging into a two point plug on the cdi. On your schematic it's not really clear what points on the cdi the connections go to. I'm also not sure how to post the list you mean in this conversation a link? The box under the steering there are broken controllers and I notice the wire going to the relay and many more go into a harness and go into that white thing behind the wheel. I fear broken things may effect operation. Like how do I find that part?

I looked at all those wires and traced everything. I took excellent notes and I just about died when all the notes I took was gone. I still tried to remember all that I traced but I might have to go back and recheck. Looking at the plan you sent a couple seem right. I know I forgot to check for voltage on I think pin 2. What I think is weird is I saw a discussion about a DC cdi for a can 250. My wiring is different in were the empty pin is. His was diagnol from mine meaning pin 2 and 3 were switched.


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Last edited by Jlattan75 on Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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