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 Post subject: Lots of Questions? :)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:29 am 
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I know it has been posted here but what is the link to buy the Yerf Head and Bigger Valves to fit my 2004 Talon, there is only one Yerf Head right?.

Other questions:
What is our stock compression ratio?

What gap do you set an Iridium CR7HIX spark plug to?

If the Eastside performance cam keeps the valves open longer, lowering the compression ratio a tad, should I tell the local small engines dude to mill off .035 in the yerf head and stop, or go for a bit more like Kelly's .048 to bring compression a bit above stock? Kelly I would like to hear your opinion on optimum compression ratio for our GY6'es, especially if your a yerf headded, big valved, performance cam, piped setup. :)

Is it a big deal to ask the small engine dude to increase the size of my exhaust port to match the bigger Eastside pipe diameter, or is that allot of extra work and probably not nessessary?

I cant believe East side is 3 hours behind Ohio time!! I have to wait 3 more hours just to order. I am getting ready to blow a grand in 3 hours all on performance parts. I have officially given up on the drop in 250cc replacement engine made for our 150cc frames.

Do you think the local small engine dude will want me to take the engine off the kart, or do you think he would be fine getting into that too. I would want to just drop him off into professional hands if I have the option. I just didn't know if small engine dudes are used to taking the engine off themselves, or do you have to do it for them in general?

My Carter Dealer is helpful and does have a kick rear end small engine guy, but they do insist they are not allowed by Carter to install performance parts for me. I told them I was willing to wave all warranties on the kart from this moment in time on but it didn't help. It is sad because in my mind with the buggy knowledge they already have, and their experienced and knowledgeable small engine dude, I think they would do the best job for me. It would help them make a few extra bucks too, im sure they would like to get the work. I know the boys in the back would have fun running the moded Talon around doing the saftey check! I wonder if I could get Carter to officially release them to let me do as I may to my buggy, all at their Official Dealers hands, with no worry of being heald accountable for the outcome? :)

Today I will order:
EastSide Pipe, UNI filter, Jet, performance cam, Yerf Head and bigger valves, Baron's CDI, An official 'Dan the Man' upgraded charging system, 3 iridium CR7HIX spark plugs, and seat belt upgrade.

Still trying to decide how to rate rim strength, but rims and light tires are on the plan too. I will also order brush guards when they become available again, and still looking at a Shock upgrade. After kelly's comment about the suspension arm travel being limited to about 4" withought stressing the ball joints, I am afraid to exceed the stock 13.5" shock length. I dont know if the progressive 14.5" might get me into some trouble? When I have CDI Baron on the phone I will ask if there is any news on any Bad Boy Carb ? Still have to talk to my welding neighbor about ball joint angle braces.

I think i will soon be the only EastSide Piped - UNI Filtered - Yerf Headed - Big Valved - Dan Charged - Baron CDI'ed - Iridium sparked - Carter Talon ?

By the way - I do still think after these upgrades I will be able to beat some of the Big Butt 250cc machines. So There!! :P

The time has come to make a searous commitment to being 'King Of The Trail', at least in my parts. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:59 am 
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Good luck on the HP kit from Eastside. I ordered one 3+ weeks ago and they still do not have them in stock. They have like 55 orders to fill, but only 50 pipes coming in. Some people will have wait for another batch to come in. Maybe a month or so. Talk to Stu, I think he will be getting the same pipes in sometime soon. I think they get the pipes from the same guy. Maybe someone else should make these beauties. Good luck. I just ordered the cam from Eastside, I bought a uni filter from my locol atv dealer and went to Homedepo and bought some plumbing supplies to attach the filter. $5.00


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 Post subject: I am not picky....
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:06 am 
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Does anybody know where some currently 'in stock ready to go' EastSide pipes are? I am an official BuggyNews registered member and should be treated as such! I demand to be put in front of the line before all the commoners! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:01 am 
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If I were you I would start out with heath's performance upgrades. Just punch the baffle out of the exhaust and put a uni filter on with a short piece of tubing (I think he used a drainpipe). Re-jet and you're ready to go. If after that you decide you want more climbing torque, have your stock head milled about .035" or so. The cam sounds like it will do pretty good for the money so I would consider that. As a last resort, I would get the yerf head, it does nothing for low rpm power so you are not going to "feel" anything until it really gets going. Doing the exhaust work and uni-filter is cheap, the next cheapest is the cam. That would get you going for less than $140 or so. The yerf head and valves are way expensive as well as the Eastside pipe.

Good luck,
Kell

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:08 am 
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Talonman,
You might talk to the "kick rear end small engine guy" at your local Carter dealer and see if he's willing to do a little "side work". I usually find the best service that way, and they generally charge a lower hourly rate than at the dealer. Just something to consider.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:13 am 
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I agree with Kell!!

The new twister pipe looks really nice too... Wait, do you have this pipe? I can't remember if your Carter is a 2004 or a 2005.

Anyhow... the new twister pipe in 2005 looks to be a higher performance pipe at about $60 from what we've been told.... just another thing to consider. Not having had one in my hands yet and comparing to the east side pipe... I can't say how much of a performance difference there is tough.


-steve

Kelly wrote:
If I were you I would start out with heath's performance upgrades. Just punch the baffle out of the exhaust and put a uni filter on with a short piece of tubing (I think he used a drainpipe). Re-jet and you're ready to go. If after that you decide you want more climbing torque, have your stock head milled about .035" or so. The cam sounds like it will do pretty good for the money so I would consider that. As a last resort, I would get the yerf head, it does nothing for low rpm power so you are not going to "feel" anything until it really gets going. Doing the exhaust work and uni-filter is cheap, the next cheapest is the cam. That would get you going for less than $140 or so. The yerf head and valves are way expensive as well as the Eastside pipe.

Good luck,
Kell

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 Post subject: Yes butt...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:27 am 
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I hear you about the head not making that much difference, but what about my smaller valves? When you put the bigger valves with the head it has to make a performance difference right? Then throw in the performance cam holding them open a longer amount of time.....? I still would like to see the link to the no no head and valves:

Nobody has me an East Side Pipe in stock?

I have the mind set if im going to keep my 150cc, I want the badest one I can get. The Twister one might be nice, but would you want the Twister or the EastSide given the choice? I want the EastSide if it was ready.

I am suprised you guys are kind of steering my away from the EastSide Pipe and Yerf head and bigger valves. I was thinking both would be substantial improvemant. I do have the skinny 2004 pipe, and the small valves. I just have seen so many posts (not here) about the Yerf head being so much better, with the bigger valves, especially when you can get a 28mm carb hooked up to it, not the 24mm standard. I know there is a manafold problem currently with the 28mm Yerf carb fitting withought hitting the bar beneth the basket, but baron's bad boy carb might work. I was planning for the future. :)

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2004 Carter Brothers Talon-DLX150IIR

My mods with pictures:

https://www.buggynews.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0

My buggy review:

https://www.buggynews.com/viewtopic.php?t=1858


Last edited by Talonman on Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:50 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:31 am 
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Talonman, I just ordered the eastside performance kit & cam yesterday, they told me he had 40 units comming back from the chrome shop this week and that the other parts, including cam were in stock... I'm going to call back and make sure of my place on the list! Sounds like alot of people are going to be ordering the cam and are on backorder with the xhaust . Interested that you are going to be doing head work as well, hope you update on the process... I'm not going to go as far as the yerf head yet....but plan on milling my existing KPX while I have it apart... I will be using Kells recommendations as well and prob around the .030 - .035" area. Also interested in Kells thoughts on the stock head with the perf. cam... Very interested in perf differences after he installs his cam with his mods, wondering how close he is to the point of diminishing returns, may go with the yerf as well depending on his thoughts... As far a warranty goes... I have a KPX! What warranty?

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05 KPX Xterro, Cam, Eastside pipe, Uni, 130 jet, and a cool speedo!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:58 pm 
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Most of your driving situations will involve needing lots and lots of torque. The stock head with small valves are actually good for torque, they flow fine at low rpm and the smaller carb causes good low speed airflow because of the small dia. (venturi effect) You will notice when climbing that your engine rpm's get lower and it starts to grunt, well the yerf head will not help here. If you have read my personal twister mods post you will notice I stated the yerf head only helps with power at higher speeds. The main reason for milling the yerf head is because it has a larger combustion chamber due to the larger valves. This will drastically lower your stock compression when switching unless you mill.

Now milling to raise compression will increase that low rpm grunt we were talking about. But it will not give you a whole lot of noticeable increase on top. You can also go to far and blow a hole in your piston. This low rpm grunt is also great for creek riding which really requires tons of torque to pull through loose gravel and sand.

So in conclusion, If you want the ultimate, get the yerf head. But if you want nearly the same results and save a ton of money just get an updated stock exhaust and modify it. Then put the cam and intake on it and you will have a nice increase in power for much cheaper. I wouldn't bother with a carb at this point. I think you can judge for yourself what you want to do, that's whats great about Steve's forum. But you can learn from our (my) mistakes, like the carb switch and cam advancement flops.

I also believe you have the Carter XTV carb/intake confused with the yerf dog. The yerf dog has a nearly identical engine, including carb and intake, as ours does. The main difference is that it has larger valves. The XTV's intake/carb and who knows what else, is completely different. They may have larger valves and cam already, but we can't verify at this point.

Almost everything on these engines was originally designed for a 125cc. That explains a lot, including the tiny exhaust, the small valves and carb etc.

good luck, and hope this helps,
Kell

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:21 pm 
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Kelly, thanks for taking the time. One other question for anyone who has a thought.... I have this mental image of my asian clone being slapped together in some dark sweat shop by 12 year-olds in china...I know that's prob not the case but while my kart has very low hours and I'm going to go into it for the aforemetioned mods, is there anything I should check to make sure it has been assembled properly? I.E. internal engine clearances.....rings, pistons...whatever? Thanks in advace for any info...Is there any info on torqe settings, clearances etc... or will my small engine guy just know how to check these things?

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05 KPX Xterro, Cam, Eastside pipe, Uni, 130 jet, and a cool speedo!


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 Post subject: O.K.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:24 pm 
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O.K. I give. I did order the EastSide performance kit and cam. Great guy there and my baby will probably be shipping tomorrow! Talked to Baron on the CDI and the Bad Boy Carb project. He is getting back to me on a price for 3 jets, (depending what sizes are in stock), and the CDI Upgrade. I am ordering it for sure. He told me to put the word out that he thinks the Carb will be ready in about a month but the project is still alive! I personally have big hopes on the right carb could produce further performance increases. Ordered 3 iridium plugs with the correct 1/2" reach. Got the ball rolling with 'Dan the Upgrade Charge System Man', be prepaired to look up in your manual under the electrical system a part number of something called the 'stator comp.' is part number M150-1051200 in my 2004 Talon Manual. This info helps him determine something about your current electrical system.

Kelly you wrote:
'I also believe you have the Carter XTV carb/intake confused with the yerf dog. The yerf dog has a nearly identical engine, including carb and intake, as ours does. The main difference is that it has larger valves. The XTV's intake/carb and who knows what else, is completely different. They may have larger valves and cam already, but we can't verify at this point."

Your right, I was getting my info mixed up. I think the 28mm Wonder Carb I was thinking about for the Yerf Dog, was actually the Carter Brothers XTV's carb all along. Thats the carb I thought you could attach to our GY6 engines. Thats the carb I was reading so many posts about it being the reason the engine ran so much better than the others. The Yerf Dog ruled in finest head currently known to mortal man catagory. Thanks for setting me straight. :)

The more engine dudes I talked to on the phone today, are telling me the larger valve thing is a myth! They havent even seen the so called bigger valves in any of the engines they are working on. Kelly likes the stock head and stock valves for low end, where I do spend most of my time RPM wise. Forget the Yerf Head and the Bigger Valves!! Man that's just hard to say. GULP !!

Any good reason to have my stock head milled a tad then? I guess I just feel like getting something milled!! :)

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2004 Carter Brothers Talon-DLX150IIR

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Last edited by Talonman on Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:11 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Well... Yerf and Dazon heads have bigger valves. The overall construction of the dazon head is probably superior but it doesn't fit our engines correctly. So the only myth is that some of the 2005s might have gone over to larger valves. They apparantly haven't


All this makes me wonder about the Dazon cam shaft. How much ya all want to bet it has a similar cam to this East Side version??

:D


-Steve

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:57 pm 
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Talonman, guys, I'm interested in the CDI scoop, it doesn't seem to me many people have had measurable success w/ CDI upgrades from what I read. I would think that would be area of big improvement... Do tell...

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 Post subject: Fact or Fiction
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:09 pm 
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CDI performance upgrade fact or fiction, I dont know. I do know Baron called me back and I have $72.00 + shipping worth of new CDI headding for my house! :)

If nothing else, I have my stock CDI as a good backup right?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:11 pm 
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IMHO start with the basics, like Kell and everyone else, you ordered the kit, thats the first step, install it and see how the performance is for you, then you may want to play with the jet settings before you do anything else, if you get into to much modifying at once you never get to know which is doing what for you. again this is just my approach. latter you can get into the other mods and I would likely do the cdi last as I think it has the least benifits for the $$$. I am not saying it doesn't add but compared to the pipe or intake or the jets or the cam from what Steve says... It does sound like the least. More of a fine tuning thing for the last few bits of power. I think you will be very surprised in the difference just the performance kit alone makes in your stock Buggy.

again just my oppinion....

STU

thebikemeister wrote:
Talonman, guys, I'm interested in the CDI scoop, it doesn't seem to me many people have had measurable success w/ CDI upgrades from what I read. I would think that would be area of big improvement... Do tell...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:47 pm 
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Forgot to mention:

the low budget approach to raising compression would be to remove the stock base gaskets (mine has 2 on it, probably to bring compression to a nice reliable el-cheapo gas level) and put one thin one on. they are pretty thick so you can gain a lot of compression this way with no milling.

kell

(check your out if you have a chance, look close and see if you have 2 gaskets also)

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 Post subject: great tip
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:00 pm 
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Great tip! Thats a BuggyNews tip of the week for sure!

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2004 Carter Brothers Talon-DLX150IIR

My mods with pictures:

https://www.buggynews.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0

My buggy review:

https://www.buggynews.com/viewtopic.php?t=1858


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:09 pm 
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That's very interesting.... will check for (and measure) gasket thickness when I get my parts and get in there.

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05 KPX Xterro, Cam, Eastside pipe, Uni, 130 jet, and a cool speedo!


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