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 Post subject: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:09 am 
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I took the CF150r out of hibernation yesterday, she lives at my brother's beach house, for a cruse on the beach. After checking the oil and fueling she started right up. Everything seemed normal until I tried to climb the hill to the beach. It seemed it wouldn't "shift" into low gear. The motor seems to run just fine and will still top out at over 35mph. Last year I replaced the belt, variator, 12g sliders, a12 cam, new oversized cylinder and piston, 26mm carb., and replaced the worn gears in the transmission. I climbed the same hill without a problem before I tucked it in for the winter (in a climate controlled garage). Nothing has changed. I haven't taken the variator cover off to inspect things as it was a one day trip. Anyone have any thoughts as to the lack of power?

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:11 am 
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Look for obstructions in the intake or exhaust.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 11:25 am 
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Thanks PGH. I know my stock exhaust is shot. It rattles like crazy. I ordered one from BD last year, but it doesn't fit a CF150r even though they claim it does. The CF takes an up-swept exhaust unlike the others. BD never would allow me to return it. I just now ordered an exhaust from JD.

Any other thoughts?

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Crossfire 150R
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35 MPH GPS Speedo
Tach
28mm Pump Carb
Redneck Intake and UNI Filter
HP CDI, Coil and Plug Wire, Iridium Plug
1932 AHOOGA Horn
A12 Cam
P&P Head
58.5mm Piston/Cylinder Big Bore Kit


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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 10:36 am 
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The BDX exhaust does fit the Crossfire 150R, I've seen it installed. The header's shorter horizontal length allows the silencer to clear the narrower CF150R swingarm rear section. This was by design, as making one pipe fit as many frames as possible means the $ numbers get closer to making sense.

You can also ask them for the shorter 370mm silencer (vs the normal 470mm).

Back in the day, my previous partner and I owned 28 Crossfire 150R's. This was back in 2010, and I've been riding, beating, breaking and fixing them since. It's one of my favorite frames out of all the 150's. I'm very familiar with the up-swept exhaust, as well as the other design issues of the 150R. That exhaust angle definitely isn't something BDX wanted to replicate in their exhaust, it's a design defect. And something I'd personally like to see stamped out of existence for the amount of hassle it's caused people trying to get a replacement over the years. The trade-off is needing to clean suet off of that rear section more frequently. To most, it's worth it.

Carova Beach Buggy wrote:
Nothing has changed. I haven't taken the variator cover off to inspect things as it was a one day trip. Anyone have any thoughts as to the lack of power?

My vote is a leaking intake manifold boot. They dry-rot over time and cause a lack of power, usually right off idle. Look for signs of surface cracking along the top of the manifold. If not, try removing the manifold and look for any separation of the rubber from the aluminum base.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:08 pm 
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TravisXBD wrote:
The BDX exhaust does fit the Crossfire 150R, I've seen it installed. The header's shorter horizontal length allows the silencer to clear the narrower CF150R swingarm rear section. This was by design, as making one pipe fit as many frames as possible means the $ numbers get closer to making sense.

You can also ask them for the shorter 370mm silencer (vs the normal 470mm).

Back in the day, my previous partner and I owned 28 Crossfire 150R's. This was back in 2010, and I've been riding, beating, breaking and fixing them since. It's one of my favorite frames out of all the 150's. I'm very familiar with the up-swept exhaust, as well as the other design issues of the 150R. That exhaust angle definitely isn't something BDX wanted to replicate in their exhaust, it's a design defect. And something I'd personally like to see stamped out of existence for the amount of hassle it's caused people trying to get a replacement over the years. The trade-off is needing to clean suet off of that rear section more frequently. To most, it's worth it.

Carova Beach Buggy wrote:
Nothing has changed. I haven't taken the variator cover off to inspect things as it was a one day trip. Anyone have any thoughts as to the lack of power?

My vote is a leaking intake manifold boot. They dry-rot over time and cause a lack of power, usually right off idle. Look for signs of surface cracking along the top of the manifold. If not, try removing the manifold and look for any separation of the rubber from the aluminum base.


I've added pic of how it doesn't fit the CF 150R. I really don't want to melt off the power coating to use something that gets me by.

My intake is all metal, but I will check for leaks. I use this buggy only at the beach so the sand can drag down this little motor with two adults in her. Currently I'm running 12g sliders, yellow contra spring and yellow clutch springs. I order them in red along with spacers for the variator. When I couldn't climb that hill the motor sounded fine, but the RPMs were low. I'm sure the clutch was slipping. I'm thinking if the RPMs were higher before the clutch engaged I could make it up that hill. What are your thoughts?


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File comment: This is how it didn't fit
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File comment: This is how it didn't fit
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Crossfire 150R
12g Sliders, Yellow Spring, Clutch, Kevlar Belt
35 MPH GPS Speedo
Tach
28mm Pump Carb
Redneck Intake and UNI Filter
HP CDI, Coil and Plug Wire, Iridium Plug
1932 AHOOGA Horn
A12 Cam
P&P Head
58.5mm Piston/Cylinder Big Bore Kit
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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:43 pm 
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I ran the 12g slider weights with red contra spring and stock clutch arm springs. 13/39 sprockets gave me a 3x reduction and the internal gearset on the Howhit was about the best gear reduction I could buy. My front tires were 22x8-10 and the rear were 22x11-8 to keep me on top of the sand.

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:09 pm 
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I'm pretty sure having the two halves mocked up tip-on-tip is going to prevent any of it from fitting or going together. That extends the total length by quite a bit.

I recommend taking it off and fully assembling/seating the two halves of the exhaust together first using the springs, then give it another shot.

Expect the exhaust tip to point at (but clear) the rear corner of the frame. That's the trade-off for the CF150R to get rid of the problematic upward angle.

I actually met with a few of the executive and engineering guys at Tomberlin a while back towards the end. The CF150R exhaust came up in the conversation among other things. There's a lot of story behind these bugs. Good guys.


Attachments:
38810929_2100988386830925_707913827034857472_n.jpg
38810929_2100988386830925_707913827034857472_n.jpg [ 146.5 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
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737761.jpg [ 571.53 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:11 am 
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PGH wrote:
I ran the 12g slider weights with red contra spring and stock clutch arm springs. 13/39 sprockets gave me a 3x reduction and the internal gearset on the Howhit was about the best gear reduction I could buy. My front tires were 22x8-10 and the rear were 22x11-8 to keep me on top of the sand.


I'm running internal 13/40 gears now. I replaced them and the bearings last summer. My front tires are 20x7-8 and the rears are 22x11-10. I really should go with taller and bigger in the front. Over inflating them gives me a tad more ground clearance, but makes them more narrow. The rear tires I run at about 3 PSI which helps cushion the ride and gives them maximum foot print.

I don't remember the sprocket sizes, but they are stock.


Attachments:
File comment: Knobby front tires
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IMG_1928.JPG [ 3.55 MiB | Viewed 123 times ]
File comment: Rear paddle like tires
IMG_1932.JPG
IMG_1932.JPG [ 3.54 MiB | Viewed 123 times ]

_________________
Crossfire 150R
12g Sliders, Yellow Spring, Clutch, Kevlar Belt
35 MPH GPS Speedo
Tach
28mm Pump Carb
Redneck Intake and UNI Filter
HP CDI, Coil and Plug Wire, Iridium Plug
1932 AHOOGA Horn
A12 Cam
P&P Head
58.5mm Piston/Cylinder Big Bore Kit
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 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:25 am 
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TravisXBD wrote:
I'm pretty sure having the two halves mocked up tip-on-tip is going to prevent any of it from fitting or going together. That extends the total length by quite a bit.

I recommend taking it off and fully assembling/seating the two halves of the exhaust together first using the springs, then give it another shot.

Expect the exhaust tip to point at (but clear) the rear corner of the frame. That's the trade-off for the CF150R to get rid of the problematic upward angle.

I actually met with a few of the executive and engineering guys at Tomberlin a while back towards the end. The CF150R exhaust came up in the conversation among other things. There's a lot of story behind these bugs. Good guys.


With the two half pushed together and using the springs the muffler would hit the bottom of the frame not allowing me to bolt the headder to the head. The angle was wrong. In addition it would hit the side of the CVT case.

It's only problematic because it's hard to find a replacement that fits. I like the looks of the up swept exhaust.

That's cool that you got to talk to those guys. They sure made a good buggy. To bad the buggy division went out of business. They had a good design that could have morphed into something even better.

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Crossfire 150R
12g Sliders, Yellow Spring, Clutch, Kevlar Belt
35 MPH GPS Speedo
Tach
28mm Pump Carb
Redneck Intake and UNI Filter
HP CDI, Coil and Plug Wire, Iridium Plug
1932 AHOOGA Horn
A12 Cam
P&P Head
58.5mm Piston/Cylinder Big Bore Kit


Top
 Profile Personal album  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crossfire 150R doesn't want to "shift" into low gear
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Carova Beach Buggy wrote:
With the two half pushed together and using the springs the muffler would hit the bottom of the frame not allowing me to bolt the headder to the head. The angle was wrong. In addition it would hit the side of the CVT case.

I have a picture or video of an early BDX exhaust prototype mounted to a CF150R frame (the engine test stand at the shop in VA). I can't recall which, but if I find it I'll send it to you.

At this point I'd call BDX back and ask (not tell) Doug to bend you a new header and specifically verify it on one of the CF150R's at the shop before sending it to you. My advice is to keep conversation cool and friendly. As long as the talk is positive, they'll be willing to do just about anything you ask. Might have to call a few times to get it done, but they'll do it. They're busy, it's important to respect that.

A lot of sellers will bend over when pressured negatively, but at the shop in VA (and for me) it's the opposite. Worst thing is to come off like a Karen. When guys get demanding they lose credibility. It ends up just sounding like whatever is wrong is due to the guy getting frustrated at his own learning curve. As long as you keep a reasonably cooperative tone and do what they ask up front, they'll be willing to turn cartwheels for you in the end.

I'm not implying that this was your interaction with them. Just giving some insight. I don't have a dog in it.

Carova Beach Buggy wrote:
It's only problematic because it's hard to find a replacement that fits. I like the looks of the up swept exhaust.

Yeah, that's why it's problematic. For almost a decade after Tomberlin discontinued them, CF150R guys would call every single day asking for an exhaust that would work, with no solution. It was hundreds of guys a year. That's a lot of Crossfires sitting and rusting out behind the shed waiting for a fix.

So the aesthetics of the angle don't really play into it for most. They want to fix & ride now, and have something that won't leave them stuck hunting for a replacement again down the road.

That's why the tubular steel on the BDX exhaust is ridiculously thick (1/8" wall thickness, with 1/4" flanges), so it'll last you forever. And why they went with the universal 52mm slip-on. Even if they discontinue the exhaust, you can still get replacements anywhere online later affordably. You won't be trapped.

Carova Beach Buggy wrote:
That's cool that you got to talk to those guys. They sure made a good buggy. To bad the buggy division went out of business. They had a good design that could have morphed into something even better.

The buggies were very profitable for Tomberlin. But in 2009, Mike (owner) wanted to shift efforts to developing EV LSVs with the idea that it would appeal to a broader market. Especially with the EV tax credits and LSV laws changing in various states to allow them on the road in <25mph zones. They really should have stuck with the buggies IMO, but it's not for me to judge. The LSV stuff was a good bet if it had worked out. Their 4x4 electric Vanish model was very interesting.

You should have seen the massive warehouse full of prototype vehicles. It was wild.

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