Joyner 650 Sand Spider Carb vs. Turbo??

Posts: 9 · Newbie Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 9 Pictures: 0

I see lots of posts for each of these but I thought a discussion on both in one post might clear it up!

The carb from what I read is easier on the engine but only supplies ~12hp increase while the turbo gives~16hp increase but the turbo is harder on the engine and costs more!

So has any one tried both and liked one over the other? If you limit the boost will the turbo still cause engine damage? What is the cost of the carb kit?

I am looking to order one or the other and it seems that the posts are either pro-turbo or pro-carb with very little middle ground!

What is the better solution that will ensure good power delivery and no major mechanical problems?

Thanks

Posts: 35

I have a 650 w. turbo and love it. I don't know what carb you are referring to but a 12 hp increase is huge. What carb are you refering to, if you don't mind? And how much does it cost/ where can I get one or two as it may be? I would possibly be interested in buying two of them, one for the turbo buggy plus one for the other stock 650 buggy I have. RICK

Posts: 941

The carb most are refering to comes from fast freddy's out of so cal. The 12 hp increase is with the carb as well as the exhaust upgrades and is probably optimistic at that. It is probably more like 7 to 8 hp. The turbo on the other hand is probably more than the 16 hp quoted depending on the boost you run. Unleashed motorsports told me they went as high as 32 pounds of boost with out killing the motor and most people run more like 8 to ten. The carb and header combo is not that much less than the turbo set up and is probably less if you buy the turbo in parts instead of a kit. Better yet upgrade the carb before you add the turbo for an even bigger power increase. All that haveing been said the difference between a better carb and new pipe and the turbo is night and day the turbo pulls much harder hands down and top speed is at least 15 mph better. With the carb and exhaust upgrades 4th gear is still pretty much usless (too high) with the turbo 4th is your top speed gear for those high speed runs up to about 75 mph.

Posts: 1338

van even with the 7-8 hp that is like adding 150-250cc to the motor and that has got to help a ton

Posts: 35

I feel it how and were you ride. I have a 650 sandspider 2007 with sidedraft weber and headers plus msd ing. I have been with a guy that has a 650 turbo 2006. His buggy is faster on open washes, sand dunes,dirt roads. It not that much faster than mine but it is faster. When we get into knarly twisty rocky trails after a while his buggy starts to cook. Sometimes we even to stop till it cools down. He's talking about a bigger radiator. On the other hand my buggy has never over heated no matter were i go. I feel the reliabilty is with the weber carb.If i were to run a turbo i would run a air cooler and oil cooler. My next mod. on my buggy is new pistons and camshaft.I feel this motor will run stronger higher comp. Cam wise im going for more duration i feel get more torque. The biggest problem 650 cherry engine it fires 360 degrees if it werew a180 opposed it would perform a lot better.

Posts: 35

I feel it how and were you ride. I have a 650 sandspider 2007 with sidedraft weber and headers plus msd ing. I have been with a guy that has a 650 turbo 2006. His buggy is faster on open washes, sand dunes,dirt roads. It not that much faster than mine but it is faster. When we get into knarly twisty rocky trails after a while his buggy starts to cook. Sometimes we even to stop till it cools down. He's talking about a bigger radiator. On the other hand my buggy has never over heated no matter were i go. I feel the reliabilty is with the weber carb.If i were to run a turbo i would run a air cooler and oil cooler. My next mod. on my buggy is new pistons and camshaft.I feel this motor will run stronger higher comp. Cam wise im going for more duration i feel get more torque. The biggest problem 650 cherry engine it fires 360 degrees if it werew a180 opposed it would perform a lot better.

Posts: 9 · Newbie Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 9 Pictures: 0

Both the manufacturer say 16hp increase but I would have to think the turbo delivers more! But it also delivers more problems, I am thinking for the long term of my buggy that a carb is the better way to go.

It seems to be the better upgrade for all around riding as were the turbo would be better for just the dunes!

I am ordering the carburator system today, so it will be a couple weeks by the time it is installed but I will post my opinion on it once I get a chance to ride it!

Ghosthunter, What is the part number of the MSD ignition and where do I get one? I am thinking that could be upgraded also!

Posts: 941

The carb turbo debate shouldnt be an either or. The best is to upgrade the carb and then put the turbo on. There is no doubt that the stock carb leaves alot to be desired in both non aspriated and turbo aplications. Ghost as far as your buddy goes it sounds like he is running to lean. Our 650 ss has never over heated and we do alot of slow long trail climbing. Also as for his being a little faster I am sure that is because his torbo is not working properly. Once he get it rich enough he can turn up the boost to 10lbs or so with out haveing to run special fuel and leave you in the dust. We have done some side by side testing with a 2005 turbo vs a 2007 non turbo with upgraded carb and pipe. A well tuned turbo just blows the non turbo away.

Posts: 35

I agree the turbo is the best performance mod you can do to a 650. But as far as reliabilty joyner didn't stop selling turbos for the hell of it. From what i here at thunder overheating,blown head gaskets plus lots of warranty claims. About the MSD unit im running 6al .Ihaving problems the unit ran great for about two days.I could feel better acceration right off idle. Then i burned a hole right through the rotor. Msd tech. said i wasn't grounded properly so iattached another ground.Then i burned up the dist. module.I sent pictures and schmatic to msd tech. They say the dist. looks like a bosch but have no clue of wy aim burning stuff up. Msd trigger fire will not fit the joyner dist.I read that pertronix has trip assm. for 2 cyl engines,i called, talked to marvin in tech. They told me to send in my extra dist. And they install led unit. So when i get all the bugs worked out i will let you know.

Posts: 941

The reason Joyner quit putting the turbo on was that the epa said it violated the emissions sticker. They as the factory where not allowed to alter the engine or they had to apply for a new emission sticker. I know the owner of the company and the former head of mechanics shop and they both said the problems with the turbo engines were negligable. I do have to say that compared to other turbos there installation and design wasnt the best but it did work.

Turbos are very trouble free mechanisms. There are a few things you have to follow, dont run the engine lean, keep a good supply of oil to the turbo, and dont over do it on the boost, and you will have very little issues with a turbo engine. Essentially all a turbo does is boost the compression by forceing more air into the engine. Cutting the head down does the same thing. All performance upgrades work on the same principle, more air and fuel equals more power. If you get similar results from two different upgrades as far as HP then you are putting similar strain on the engine. There is no free lunch. There is NO High performance up grade that works, that doesnt put a comparable strain on the engine. Remember the old Physics law, "for every action there is an equal and oppisite reaction. That applies to all mechanical movements we cant get away from it. Van