Hammerhead won't start, sounds ...tired

Posts: 195

I started with a post about testing the CDI - not sure that is possible. I'm trying new thread with broader topic in hopes of finding a solution.

Soooo, buggy was running great at the buggy bash then on Sunday, the last day I was having trouble restarting it. It acted like the battery was dying. I was running with the lights on most of the day and thought I had just drained the battery.

Not sure if this is important but the day before (Saturday), I had to remove, empty and clean the gas tank with mild soap and water in order to have small leak welded. I rinsed the tank several times with water and let dry before re-installing. The buggy ran solid for nearly six hours after this fix, stopping and restarting may times before I had any trouble.

After the buggy bash I, put the battery on the charger at home and it still wouldn't start. Engine tries to turn over but no go. It really sounds like it is struggling to start - see video for audio of buggy trying to start.

Here's what I've done so far - with the same result as in the video:

1) Checked all wiring for lose connections - did not find any. Doesn't mean there isn't one, just couldn't find any.
2) New battery, all charged up (triple checked charge) solid 12.5v
3) Tried to start the buggy by crossing over the starter relay - voltage at relay 12.5v
4) Tried to start buggy by running jumper cable directly from battery to starter.
5) Removed spark plug, good spark on plug when key turned. Noticed smell of and could see gas on plug. Let let plug dry before reinstalling.
6) Replaced spark plug with new plug.
7) Removed starter - disassembled - cleaned coils - reassembled (boy that was a trick!) and reinstalled
*note, voltage at starter when key is turned is about 8v.
8.) Checked ignition for lose wires - none
9) Checked fuses
10) Checked, yup there is gas in the tank

I really don't want to start buying new parts without knowing the current part is bad. But I'm beginning to run out of ways and things to test.

Is there any way to test the starter, the starting relay, the CDI, and or the ignition coil? Or is there any other tests, places to check voltage that might narrow down my troubleshooting?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Posts: 201

Just by reading your post you said that you have a good spark,is it a blue spark? lets suppose it is,you have a good spark but no start and from what I gather labors while cranking as if battery is low but it has a full charge,however you said the plug was wet with fuel.Good spark plus raw fuel on plug would indicate flooding to me,and if the cylinder is full of fuel it will not compress causing sort of a hydrolic lockup which will make it labor turning over. I would pull the dip stick and smell the oil for traces of fuel.You could have got some trash in the carb which is sticking the float or the diaphram is bad and fuel is running into the intake.I just run into this problem on my sons kart and did not catch it until oil and fuel was blowing out the valve cover vent due to the crankcase being full of fuel,now we are putting a new cylinder on a new rebuilt engine due to cylinder being washed out with fuel,and believe me it did not take long to destroy the cylinder. TOM

Posts: 1215

johnnyfazer i listened to your video and to me when you start to crank it, it sounds like it has enough power turning over to start.have looked into adjusting your valves i'm sure you guys run your buggys hard at the bash maybe they need adjusted now.i know i'm not running a 250 but i have had this sort of problem on my 150 good spark, wet plug and won't start.
then i will check the valve and will be way out of adjustment.
myself thats all i can think of.
pud

Posts: 195

Thanks sycarms and pud -

I checked the oil dipstick and could almost swear I smelled gas. I won't be able to get to it until early next week, but I think I will check the carb first. We ran the buggy really hard at the bash and the it was very dusty. I was very careful about cleaning the UNI each day and re-oiling, but something could be caught up in the carb causing it to flood.

Tom, thanks for the warning - after I check the carb, would you suggest draining the oil? Would this remove all of the fuel from the crankcase? (sorry, I'm still learning about engines)

Pud, if I try the above and that still doesn't work, any suggestions on the process for adjusting the valves? Taking the carb apart, inspecting and cleaning I can do but adjusting the valves is a new one for me. Like I said, I'm still learning about engines, but I'm getting better!

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Posts: 1215

Posts: 201

The answer is Yes,the oil will be dilluted by the fuel and this will break down the lubricating properties of the oil.Also check to see if the level on the dip stick is higher,if so I would first check the vacume assisted fuel regulator valve if used by hammerhead if this valve is used it can be identified by the two hoses comming from it ,the top hose goes to the fuel inlet on the carb and the bottom goes to the vacume port on the intake,however some just use a strait valve with a valve to shut the fuel off to the carb.The next thing I would check is the float needle & seat. TOM

Posts: 148

My 250 did the samething and it was the valves. Had them adjusted and works like new. Try taking out the spark plug and put your finger over the hole and turn the engine over. There should be enough pressure to blow your finger off of the hole. If there is not, then it is your valves.

Posts: 594

John, I don't know if you remember how much trouble I had wth my 150 when we went to Tuttle last winter......,but I adjusted my valves also,and it does not even make a full turn now,before it starts.( that is when my starter clutch is tight).Also you might also take aprt your carb ,and give it a thorough cleaning. Pay close attention to the airways for the choke. There is alot of fine dust out at St.Joes,and killed Daves carb last year.

Keep us informed on your progress,and if you'll be able to make Tuttle!

Mike

Posts: 195

I finally had time to work on my buggy again! The last part of the summer was crazy for me - took and passed a four hour certification exam and now I'm a "Project Management Professional" - PMP. What does that mean? Hopefully it means a nice raise or promotion at work, we'll see.

With that finally behind me it was time to get the buggy running again!

I adjusted the valves but still no go on the start (by the way, they did need to be adjusted). As I was thoroughly cleaning the carb I notice a piece of the choke was broken. I would have bet that was what was causing gas to flood into the engine. So with a new choke in place and valves adjusted hopes were high but still no luck.

I spent some quality time with my multi-meter measuring voltages here and there on the buggy and decided . . . this may not sound logical . . . but maybe, just maybe the reason my buggy wouldn't start was that the starter was bad - I know hard to believe that a bad starter could keep a buggy from starting (tongue firmly planted in cheek).

So I bought and installed a new starter and sure enough, started on the first try.

So the lesson here, all kinds of things can cause a buggy not to start, but if you have a good battery and a spark on the plug AND the plug is wet with gas - and it still doesn't start - its probably the starter. I tried all kinds of things but failed to try the most obvious, lesson learned.

So whose up for some riddin?!!!! Its supposed to rain here all weekend - I promise, you will see muddy buggy pictures by Sunday night!

Posts: 4291

dont you hate that Laughing